Months ago we saw the leaked prototype images of what "appeared" to be a 1950s doll. Certainly historical in nature and the 1950s feeding frenzy began! RUMOR is Mary Ellen will make her Beforever debut around Labor Day (as patterned for historical debuts).
I don't want to stir up another feeding frenzy, but rumors are circulating about the possible debut. AG announced on Facebook that there would be an AA Beforever character in 2016. Currently there are eight BF dolls in the line up, rumor is there will be an archiving.
Caroline was released concurrent with the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, perhaps she was intended to be LE. There were many celebrations in 2014, on July 14 Kathleen Ernst featured Caroline at Ft. McHenry. And there was initial reaction about Caroline because The War of 1812 was against British Canada.
And remember there is also a copyright battle between Mattel and Carollyne Yardley over the name Caroline as it pertains to Canadian copyrights.
When BeForever launched August 2014, Caroline had only been available for two years. It's interesting that Caroline's collection got very little - a $150 table similar to NOLA and a $36 "Frozen" style dress and nothing new in the spring releases. Her table and chairs, birthday set and birthday dress have been retired. Her Parlor has been on sale three times and is currently on sale 55% off. (at the time of this post).
Also some in store have heard whispers from PS that Caroline the doll is selling well, but sales are sluggish on her collection (weighted with large big ticket items - $175 skiff, $300 parlor, $150 table, $125 bed). Most girls love Caroline, but they dress her in modern clothes. There seems to be a disconnect with Caroline's story and young collectors and AG fans.
Also some in store have heard whispers from PS that Caroline the doll is selling well, but sales are sluggish on her collection (weighted with large big ticket items - $175 skiff, $300 parlor, $150 table, $125 bed). Most girls love Caroline, but they dress her in modern clothes. There seems to be a disconnect with Caroline's story and young collectors and AG fans.
Meanwhile, Mary Ellen is RUMORED to make her debut this year.
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| February 2015 |
AG continues to say they have no plans for Josefina any time soon.
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| January 5, 2015 |
However Josefina didn't get a thing for spring release, no journey book or mini doll. Only her BF meet skirt and sash were "brightened" up and she was missing from Canadian catalogs. Is she not worth marketing if she is set to archive?
This is ALL SPECULATION of course and we will have to wait as we move closer to Labor Day, (between August 27 or September 7) for any news of Mary Ellen.
Meanwhile we will watch for any archival announcement from AG.
Meanwhile we will watch for any archival announcement from AG.
Interesting- If Caroline is retiring, maybe it is because they are bringing Felicity back and their time periods are too close?
ReplyDeleteHmmm... I think it may be possible. However, if this is the case, why would they bring Felicity back and retire Caroline?
Deleteisn't felicity from 1774, and caroline from 1812, so that's not that close. molly and kit were closer but now molly is retired.
DeleteYeah, plus Caroline (1812) is closer to Josefina (1824) than to Caroline is to Felicity.
DeleteOMG HOPE THEY WILL BRING BACK FELCITY SHES MY FIRST AND FAVORTE DOLL AND HER STORY IS SO GOOD
DeleteMore like Caroline and Felicity are closely related. They are both about the American Revolution, Caroline's is sort of about the aftermath; the second revolution. Felicity's time period affected the nation in a large way. Caroline's story centers on a period of time that didn't influence the WHOLE nation as strongly (aside from those living near bodies of water). That aside, there is a disconnect because 1812 is not a well-known time in history, not even to the average adult, and children only learn general history in school. The War of 1812 is not touched on because it was such a short event and neither side won on the issue, to add, American Girl has a lot of Canadian fans. They just opened a bistro.
DeleteI think it's rather Felicity and Caroline are similar in content. They are both centered on America's independence. It's just that Caroline's era isn't well-known neither was it extremely important in American history. I predicted she would be archived the moment she was released. Students are not taught much about the war of 1812 and even many adults are not interested in it. There are also many Canadian fans (and American Girl store just opened in Toronto) and are not really liking Caroline's attitude towards British Canada. Those are just some of the issues.
DeleteI like Mary-Ellen, but I LOVE Caroline-- I hope she doesn't retire! She is a beautiful doll, and she has a wonderful story too. Mary-Ellen's story sounds cool, but I already have Molly and their one periods are really too close for my tastes. I can't wait for the African American doll in 2016!! I really would love to see a MLK/Civil Rights era doll. :)
ReplyDelete-aginparadise <3
I love Caroline as well! It's okay Caroline, there, there. *hugs Caroline closer*
DeleteI am really excited for Mary-Ellen and also since I missed out on Molly, I think I will get her!
~WondersOfAG
I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens this year, so much going on!
ReplyDeleteDid anyone read that article about the trademark? I'm all for copyright law and so forth, but that is really strange, she doesn't even spell it the same! I will be very surprised if she wins.
i did and i was pretty offended when i read the part, that the name is too close to the artist's copyright. Thats outrageous! whos gonna confuse an artist's name with a doll??? anyone agree with me? The signs that AG is losing to an artist is that almost all of her collection is on sale. I am all for the copyright law too, but just its horrifying when AG gets cut off. I mean, AG could just not sell Caroline in Canada, it seems thats what the artist is more concerned about.
DeleteI also think the artist may have been offended about the usage of a name close to hers. But AG probably knew NOTHING about this artist, and therefore did not know their was a trademark on a similiar name. I feel really bad for AG, because they are losing a Lovely Character, and an amazing doll with an amazing time period, over a copyrighted artist's business.
DeleteSince there has been little change between Josefina and Caroline, I wonder if AG is still trying to decide who will get archived.
ReplyDeleteI guess I better buy Caroline soon, lol. And Josefina next, just in case!
ReplyDeleteI hope AG does not do an item disappearing act on Caroline's collection like they did with some of their older dolls bf giving them time to be discounted in a sale. I would love to buy her whole collection, but bc of some of the big ticket items I have to save and get them a few at a time. I love her clothes, except for the Cinderella dress, I mean the party gown. Beautiful doll, with excellent collection pieces hope they give her a few more items bf archival.
ReplyDeleteI really like Caroline, but I worry for her staying power as her skiff, a few outfits and her classic version were on Jill's Steals and Deals yesterday. Her parlor is prominently displayed in store as on sale. I find when things go on Jill's, AG is trying to get rid of them, but I hope this is not the case. We own much of her collection including the boat (a very expensive. $175 gift)
ReplyDeleteWow, how fast all this happens.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, it would make sense that the new historical would debut around labor day, as already evidenced by previous dolls. Plus Molly and Emily have been retired, along with Cecile,Marie Grace, Ivy and Ruthie, so something new needs to fill that gap. (Mary Ellen)
It is also entirely reasonable that they would retire Caroline before introducing more characters. The copyright issue also could be part of it?
I knew Caroline's collection wouldn't do well. It has way too many expensive pieces as you mentioned. Plus AG is loosing business, and FAST. Rising doll prices mean that soon enough they'll be out of business. In like 15 years. Plus Caroline just looks so pretty modern.
I bet they're either doing something really big&awesome with Josefina or deciding who to retire first, Josefina or Caroline. But is they retire Josefina, they will be called racist. The JSD have already been called scams multiple times.
Also on one of Basilmento's SUPER OLD blog posts, she said "she looks like a barbie" which is very true. Everything from her pink dress to her long blond curls just screams barbie. (People on the interwebs have also been pointing that out for a while now. ) I know that some people won't let their children play with specific dolls, and that could be bad for business.
Overall, we just have to wait. I in fact want to get Caroline and rename her willow so I can make her modern, but with a few of her things (nightgown, car, travel outfit and calf)
Also as one last note, consider that curly haired dolls are hard to maintain. They always get terrible reviews on the AG website unlike straight haired dolls.
AG Collector, i disagree, AG Will NOT go out of business, if that happened that would be racist and would cause alot of stir and Annoyance, plus then girls would no longer have access to good quality dolls, all they would have is lower quality dolls such as OG, and AG is SUPER good quality. plus if AG went out of business, it would Devestate millions of girls/collectors. in fact i emailed AG and told them gently that prices should be lowered, and that if they raise prices, they will lose customers, and if they lower prices, more people will buy from them. now i don't know if they will follow through on my advice, but i believe AG may lower prices. Now i know every business has an end but still, i don't think AG will be closing down Any time soon. one more thing, AG has the best quality in dolls, clothing, and accessories, and if AG did close down then girls would have to buy cheaper items that aren't very good quality.
DeleteI would like to add that Mary-Ellen could possibly be brought into BeForever without the archival of another character. I don't know about any other AGP's, but at the LA store there is a rather bare wall of display cases in the BeForever section, where Marie-grace and Cecile used to be. I hope nobody is archived!
ReplyDelete-aginparadise
It's possible that a character may not archive until the AA character came out. For about a year, we had 9 historical characters before Molly was announced to be retiring. I am really sad to hear this news as I was unable to get Caroline before she sold out on Jill's Steals and Deals. I really love her books too. I have two signed by Kathleen Ernst, and I would hate for her character to be archived. Considering how AG is these days, we might not see anymore books from Caroline if she retired. With the new Beforever format on the mystery books, I highly doubt AG would make a new Kirsten or Felicity book.
ReplyDeleteI am not holding my breath for Kirsten to come out of the archives :-(
DeleteAfter the Spring release Josefina no longer has some of her outfits, furniture (down to only a bed) and accessories. I'm so afraid they are going to archive her. She was the second doll I got after Kirsten, who is now archived. Would love to see Kirsten come back and there have been rumors about that happening. Caroline has some very high priced items in her collection but that has not seemed to deter AG looking at the reintroduction of Samantha. The items in her collection; ice cream parlor, gazebo, bed all seem to be pricey. At the least comparable to Caroline's collection. So it would be hard to believe that the price of her parlor and skiff would be the reason to archive her. Also looking at the price of Grace's shop, cart and table with one chair. I love Caroline and her story, the Regency time period and the fact that her collection had something different in the skiff. A girl who wanted to live a life on the water has been a nice change.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see an African American doll in the Historical line but would really like to see a girl in the 1920s. I know with the rerelease of Samantha that makes her and Rebecca's time periods close but the history is there and many stories are possible. The beginning of Jazz for one. And think about the fashion possibilities! Also Kit (1930s) and Molly (1940s) and Mary Ellen (1950s) are close in years but there is a lot of change in those decades that make for few things in common. That makes the idea of 1920s feasible I guess. But really, it's a done deal as far as AG is concerned. We are just not privy to their decision yet. : /
I hope Mary Ellen doesn't get released, or if she is, she's not the prototype doll that we saw over a year ago. Did anybody else notice she looked exactly like #37 except slightly wavy hair and no freckles? I still really want a black civil rights girl as well, and it would stink for Mary Ellen to be white/Caucasian in such an important time of change in american history for black people. Still, I wouldn't say no to a Harlem Renaissance girl :D.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually really excited to have a red haired doll. All the other ones have retired. :( Don't worry about Mary Ellen being black because even if she's not, Mattel has CONFIRMED on facebook that they are releasing an African American doll in 2016. :) I think it will be cool to have both a red haired doll and an AA doll. It will give Beforever more variety.
DeleteI agree. Red head yay! It seems pretty solid that AA 2016 will be here.
DeleteA few months ago, I started making a spreadsheet of the Historical Mystery books, the craft, cooking, etc. As I was going through, when I got to Caroline, I noticed there is a new mystery book for her. It is supposed to be released in 2015. When I went out to American Girl wiki, it appears that it may have just been released. If they are going to archive Caroline, then why would they just release a new mystery book? I thought AG decided not to have in print books of archived dolls??http://americangirl.wikia.com/wiki/The_Smuggler%27s_Secrets
ReplyDeleteDon't forget Molly got a new yellow bed and pj set prior to her archive announcement. It's an unpredictable pattern, rumors are based on collective info. As posted, we will have to watch this unfold.
DeleteWow, interesting! Well, what they did with NoLa and friends. It's not hard to believe they would do this for Josefina or Caroline. I'm lucky I have their collections minus 3 for Caroline, but really I only want 2. Her skates just look strange to me and I don't know about kids playing with the plastic that's one them....
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I for one hope Mary Ellen is like the picture that was leaked. She was adorable and I really dig the no freckles. Grace and Saige have them, so I won't miss them. I am eager for her release! I hope her things are awesome!
I'd like to add that big ticket items don't seem to be detracting ppl in buying. I like them myself, think they're cool for kids. But, the space! That space quickly diminishes with just a few things. I know that I've got to be selective in the purchases... There are soo many cute things out there. But what does one do with all that space? I should probably ask AGoverSeas? From Youtube what she does. Because honestly even with making a house to fit that stuff most collectors know that it all just doesn't fit! Lol
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Josefina will be retired--they are opening up 3 (?) stores in Mexico and I am betting Josefina will be one of the centerpiece dolls for that. I am betting that new outfits will be added to her collection to coincide with those stores opening. Josefina's history is Mexican history too. Caroline--I don't know. Maybe a revamp of her collection--Samantha seems to be getting all the huge pieces now. If a JLY appears with the same hair, I'll start thinking she's on the chopping block but until then, Caroline is by far the one I see carried around by little girls most when I go to the store. I definitely notice because she always needs a hair brushing.
ReplyDeleteI am dying for Mary Ellen. The leaked pictures of potential dresses were just perfection. I don't care if there is a similar JLY--there is a definite need for a redhead and/or a doll with glasses. The 2016AA doll is going to be interesting too--what time period will she be from? Will she have hair like Addy or more like Cecile or some other options? Can't wait! I could see them potentially retiring Addy with the introduction of the new AA doll because then they could do a white girl from the Civil War era and can you imagine the clothing and accessory possibilities with that? All that said, the possibility of Mary Ellen and the 2016AA probably means that there won't be an Asian descent doll for a good three or four years. Unless she gets to be a GOTY. Based on the demographics of the people often shopping in the DC American Girl store, there is a HUGE audience of Asian customers that aren't being catered to.
I would LOVE an Asian doll too.
DeleteGood point - it would be VERY counterproductive for AG to retire their only cannon Hispanic right when opening stores in Mexico. And an Asian doll would be lovely, especially as a GotY, since they lack a lot of diversity.
Delete- Ellie
an asian doll would be awesome maybe they can retire kit or rebecca and make her from the early 20th century
DeleteIt wouldn't make sense for American Girl to retire Addy just to make another Civil War era doll, like being white will change the collection somehow. It would make no sense to recover the era. If they do retire Addy, I doubt they'll return to that time period. However, they may try a girl during the Gold Rush era or era of Western expansion.
DeleteI'm still hoping for my Asian historical. My collection will not be complete until I have one. We've already had two GOTY Asian dolls (Jess and Kanani) but none in the historical collection. And Ivy was just a sidekick.
I thought that Josefina is going to retire soon until I saw the Facebook comment in this post: "Josefina's collection will be refreshed sometime this year." This makes me think this sad reality that AG is just neglecting Josefina right now. Caroline is so beautiful, and if she is going to retire than I definitely want to get her, but I don't think she necessarily stands out from the other Beforever characters. Civil War doll. Actress doll. Reporter-Great-Depression doll. Spanish doll. Native American doll. War-of-1812 doll? I would love to get Caroline sometime, but she doesn't stand out to most girls. Like Rhonda said, we can't base our predictions too much on the releases because Molly did get new items right before she retired. Mary Ellen is cute, but why did they retire Molly then? Why not just keep Molly and not release Mary Ellen so that you wouldn't have to archive any doll? Lots of rumors...exciting...!
ReplyDeleteOh geez, the new journey book for Josefina! Exciting. Really would loooove her writing desk and accessories. What about that Piano!? I'd like to see a Donkey in her collection :) lol...
ReplyDeleteI think now that Caroline is more likely to retire than Josefina, but wonder why they neglected Josefina's collection for a few months and now they're going to update it this year? This isn't likely, but could a double archiving be coming? If the AA doll is in 2016 and Mary Ellen in 2015...two new dolls...this is getting exciting!
ReplyDeleteClever point! There was a quadruple archival with minimal notice with Cecile, MG, Ivy, and Ruthie, so a double archival is not inconceivable! That would, however, leave AG with only two minorities (Native American and African-American) represented in their BF line....and retiring their only Hispanic right as they opened stores in Mexico....still, it could happen. AG does things that seem very counterintuitive sometimes.
Delete- Ellie
I really hope Josefina does not retire, but it she is going to then I better get her before she does!
Deleteme too love i Josephina id be wicked sad if they retired her
DeleteThe new in-store catalogue does not have Caroline or Josefina. It only includes the dolls that received special edition sets. Samantha and Kaya have four pages each, everyone else has only two.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...thanks for the update!
DeleteCaroline is in my new catalogue. I think they usually make a few different ones each season.
DeleteHmm.....I think part of the reason Caroline may not be selling is that she is a typical blue-eyed pink-dressed blonde doll, and people don't want to buy that so much.....also, her curly hair may make mothers not buy her and instead get Sam, Julie, or Kit, as curls would obviously be a disaster in the hands of a little girl. I still hope she doesn't retire, though - she's very darling, and her clothes are lovely.
ReplyDeleteA thing I've noticed is that if Caroline retires for Mary Ellen, that would mean all AG's BF white dolls would be in the 20th century and minorities the 19th. This could garner a lot of criticism for "sticking minorities in the past" and not acknowledging that they are a part of America today, even if they didn't mean to project that image - which could be interesting. Also, with five dolls in the 20th century and not able to really go past the seventies, that century might be a little crowded. The 2016AA might be stuck in the 19th to prevent overcapacity, in which case the "minorities in the past" wouldn't be helped, or she might really crowd up the 20th - in which case Molly coming back would be less likely, but a return of Felicity or Kirsten more so (not that a return of Felicity or Kirsten is very likely at all in the first place).
- Ellie
NOOOOO! I love Caroline and I still have to get her!!!! D: :( Why does AG retire all the best dolls??
ReplyDeleteHey im the Boston area and i think it would be kinda cool if they retired kaya and replaced her with a Wampanoag doll or retired Caroline for maybe a girl from the early 18th or mid to late 17th century on cape cod that would be wicked awsome oh yeah we might get the Olympics in 2024 not sure but that happens hopefully sometime around 2020s we would get a doll from the bay state
ReplyDeleteSo what if the war was against Canada? In Molly's stories the US was fighting Germany but some of the dolls were made in Germany..
ReplyDeleteThere are quite a few Canadian fans and even an American Girl store in Toronto. There are very few German customers. But tons of Canadian fans.
Deletewhere is the maryellen mini doll rudie and you have lea clark but not maryellen so rude.you are rudre stop jhatasting kion meR sorry that was maryellen getting mad
ReplyDeleteMaryellen's Review: http://snickerdoodlestreet.blogspot.com/2015/08/review-beforever-maryellen-mini-doll.html
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